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	<title>Comments on: Idosyncratic Code? #amazonfail</title>
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	<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/#utm_source=feed&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=feed</link>
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		<title>By: TechnoLlama &#187; Amazonfail: cyber-censorship, cyber-hype, or YHBT?</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56375</link>
		<dc:creator>TechnoLlama &#187; Amazonfail: cyber-censorship, cyber-hype, or YHBT?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56375</guid>
		<description>[...] explanation at the moment seems to be a combination of bad coding and bad PR. Lilith Saintcrow posted this from an insider at Amazon: &#8220;Well, this is the real story: a guy from Amazon France got [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] explanation at the moment seems to be a combination of bad coding and bad PR. Lilith Saintcrow posted this from an insider at Amazon: &#8220;Well, this is the real story: a guy from Amazon France got [...]</p>
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		<title>By: An &#8220;embarrassing and ham-fisted&#8221; error&#8230; &#171; creamandwrittenbyawoman</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56309</link>
		<dc:creator>An &#8220;embarrassing and ham-fisted&#8221; error&#8230; &#171; creamandwrittenbyawoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56309</guid>
		<description>[...] For an inside look at Amazon&#8217;s in-house reponse, look here. And check out Lilith Saintcrow&#8217;s blog for the nitty-gritty  here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For an inside look at Amazon&#8217;s in-house reponse, look here. And check out Lilith Saintcrow&#8217;s blog for the nitty-gritty  here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Amazon blames human error for LGBT derankings &#124; Retailer to publish uncensored doujinshi in English &#124; Tokyovation</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56293</link>
		<dc:creator>Amazon blames human error for LGBT derankings &#124; Retailer to publish uncensored doujinshi in English &#124; Tokyovation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56293</guid>
		<description>[...] of Amazon&#8230; specifically, it may be an editing error by a single employee.  There are still lingering doubts and inconsistencies for some.  Dear Author brings up past episodes of similar manipulations.  Vroman&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Amazon&#8230; specifically, it may be an editing error by a single employee.  There are still lingering doubts and inconsistencies for some.  Dear Author brings up past episodes of similar manipulations.  Vroman&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rakesh</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56257</link>
		<dc:creator>Rakesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56257</guid>
		<description>&quot;From what I’ve heard the Amazon code base has been just one step ahead of the curve of their business, VERY TYPICAL, and so means there’s some duct tape, bailing twine and bubble gum wedged in there.&quot;

That&#039;s pretty much it. Based on what I saw during the year that I wasted there, your statement is actually sugar-coating the reality of Amazon&#039;s abysmal codebase. In reality, I find it hard to believe that it works at all, and having been there, I saw how many things failed routinely.

Amazon uses developers as basically babysitters for their systems, without which none of it would work. 

&quot;I think its’ mostly been DUMB LUCK that it hasn’t exploded in their faces before.&quot;

It&#039;s not luck, it&#039;s lots of developer with 24x7 pager duty.

People like you don&#039;t exist there; QA is a foreign concept to someone who just graduated from college and landed a job with a big internet company, and that is exactly the kind of person that Amazon has writing its most critical code. Amazon takes full advantage of the fact that those kids are willing to carry pagers and feel like heroes because they fixed some major issue at 2am and yet show up for a full day of work the following day, because &quot;that&#039;s how it&#039;s done&quot; there.

When I was interviewing, almost every single company that I interviewed with (around 20 phone and close to a dozen in-person) had at least one ex-Amazon employee in the interview loop, and not a one was surprised that I was looking to get less than a year after joining. (In fact, one of my co-workers at Amazon said that I&#039;d leave soon, because the best ones always do (my co-worker&#039;s words almost exactly) -- around three months after I joined.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;From what I’ve heard the Amazon code base has been just one step ahead of the curve of their business, VERY TYPICAL, and so means there’s some duct tape, bailing twine and bubble gum wedged in there.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty much it. Based on what I saw during the year that I wasted there, your statement is actually sugar-coating the reality of Amazon&#8217;s abysmal codebase. In reality, I find it hard to believe that it works at all, and having been there, I saw how many things failed routinely.</p>
<p>Amazon uses developers as basically babysitters for their systems, without which none of it would work. </p>
<p>&#8220;I think its’ mostly been DUMB LUCK that it hasn’t exploded in their faces before.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not luck, it&#8217;s lots of developer with 24&#215;7 pager duty.</p>
<p>People like you don&#8217;t exist there; QA is a foreign concept to someone who just graduated from college and landed a job with a big internet company, and that is exactly the kind of person that Amazon has writing its most critical code. Amazon takes full advantage of the fact that those kids are willing to carry pagers and feel like heroes because they fixed some major issue at 2am and yet show up for a full day of work the following day, because &#8220;that&#8217;s how it&#8217;s done&#8221; there.</p>
<p>When I was interviewing, almost every single company that I interviewed with (around 20 phone and close to a dozen in-person) had at least one ex-Amazon employee in the interview loop, and not a one was surprised that I was looking to get less than a year after joining. (In fact, one of my co-workers at Amazon said that I&#8217;d leave soon, because the best ones always do (my co-worker&#8217;s words almost exactly) &#8212; around three months after I joined.)</p>
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		<title>By: Minal Hajratwala &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Amazon Update</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56250</link>
		<dc:creator>Minal Hajratwala &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Amazon Update</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56250</guid>
		<description>[...] void of any real information, various theories have been floating around, some quite creative:  confused French programmer, Internet troll, right-wing conspiracy, etc.  A storm on Twitter and Facebook on Sunday led the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] void of any real information, various theories have been floating around, some quite creative:  confused French programmer, Internet troll, right-wing conspiracy, etc.  A storm on Twitter and Facebook on Sunday led the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Update: Amazon de-listing was error on company&#8217;s part &#171; The Word Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56233</link>
		<dc:creator>Update: Amazon de-listing was error on company&#8217;s part &#171; The Word Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56233</guid>
		<description>[...] to Daisey&#8217;s inside sources, &#8220;A guy from Amazon France got confused on how he was editing the site, and mixed up [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Daisey&#8217;s inside sources, &#8220;A guy from Amazon France got confused on how he was editing the site, and mixed up [...]</p>
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		<title>By: coolcatdaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56220</link>
		<dc:creator>coolcatdaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56220</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not as concerned about Amazon as I am by groups of users that may try to &quot;game&quot; the system through a concerted effort involving automated scripting and the like.

Paranoid?  Let&#039;s just say I&#039;m skeptical of systems that are so user driven that they can be taken advantage of by someone with an agenda.  There&#039;s a small group of fanatics on the right that has a long history of pulling books from libraries or setting ridiculous standards for local school boards.

It&#039;s not unlike attempts to manipulate Google page rankings or other misinformation campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not as concerned about Amazon as I am by groups of users that may try to &#8220;game&#8221; the system through a concerted effort involving automated scripting and the like.</p>
<p>Paranoid?  Let&#8217;s just say I&#8217;m skeptical of systems that are so user driven that they can be taken advantage of by someone with an agenda.  There&#8217;s a small group of fanatics on the right that has a long history of pulling books from libraries or setting ridiculous standards for local school boards.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not unlike attempts to manipulate Google page rankings or other misinformation campaigns.</p>
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		<title>By: vandeerleun</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-3/#comment-56203</link>
		<dc:creator>vandeerleun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56203</guid>
		<description>I note that you don&#039;t include the suggested search term &quot;homosexuality 101.&quot; Does it undercut your paranoid view of the matter?

And yes, the search suggestions are derived from the way in which users search the site. You don&#039;t really think that Amazon, one of the most gay friendly and understanding companies in the world as well as being based in the very gay friendly city of Seattle has some gaybashing executive sitting around thinking up search terms, do you?

Use your head, for just one moment, and you&#039;ll see how paranoid and overly victimized all that makes you sound.

Completing the suggested term gay with &quot;books&quot; will take you to plenty of gay books. The first title returned is &quot;Between Men: Best New Gay Fiction&quot;

The system does not know when you type in gay at the all departments whether you want gay porn, gay books or gayle collins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note that you don&#8217;t include the suggested search term &#8220;homosexuality 101.&#8221; Does it undercut your paranoid view of the matter?</p>
<p>And yes, the search suggestions are derived from the way in which users search the site. You don&#8217;t really think that Amazon, one of the most gay friendly and understanding companies in the world as well as being based in the very gay friendly city of Seattle has some gaybashing executive sitting around thinking up search terms, do you?</p>
<p>Use your head, for just one moment, and you&#8217;ll see how paranoid and overly victimized all that makes you sound.</p>
<p>Completing the suggested term gay with &#8220;books&#8221; will take you to plenty of gay books. The first title returned is &#8220;Between Men: Best New Gay Fiction&#8221;</p>
<p>The system does not know when you type in gay at the all departments whether you want gay porn, gay books or gayle collins.</p>
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		<title>By: coolcatdaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-2/#comment-56201</link>
		<dc:creator>coolcatdaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56201</guid>
		<description>This doesn&#039;t explain the suggested searches you get when you go to Amazon.

If you type in &quot;homosexuality&quot; as a search, it suggests as search terms:

homosexuality and the bible
homosexuality and the politics of truth
homosexuality and christianity
homosexuality and the catholic church
homosexuality and american psychiatry

The first titles that show up in a search for homosexuality are:

A Parent&#039;s Guide to Preventing Homosexuality
You Don&#039;t Have to Be Gay
For the Bible Tells Me So
Can Homosexuality Be Healed?

All of the suggested search terms above bring up right-wing screeds against homosexuality; the one on &quot;homosexuality and american psychiatry&quot; brings up books from the 1980s about how the APA was &quot;politicized&quot; into delisting homosexuality as a disorder.

If you type in &quot;gay&quot; as a search term, it suggests &quot;gayporn&quot;, &quot;gaydvd&quot; and similar variants which take you to their dvd/movies section and doesn&#039;t show you any books (like &quot;Gay New York&quot; for example).

So are these suggested searches completely generated by how users search at the site?  If so, it seems odd that &quot;gay&quot; doesn&#039;t bring up any &quot;normal&quot; phrase starting with that word and that &quot;homosexuality&quot; suggests right-wing BS for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This doesn&#8217;t explain the suggested searches you get when you go to Amazon.</p>
<p>If you type in &#8220;homosexuality&#8221; as a search, it suggests as search terms:</p>
<p>homosexuality and the bible<br />
homosexuality and the politics of truth<br />
homosexuality and christianity<br />
homosexuality and the catholic church<br />
homosexuality and american psychiatry</p>
<p>The first titles that show up in a search for homosexuality are:</p>
<p>A Parent&#8217;s Guide to Preventing Homosexuality<br />
You Don&#8217;t Have to Be Gay<br />
For the Bible Tells Me So<br />
Can Homosexuality Be Healed?</p>
<p>All of the suggested search terms above bring up right-wing screeds against homosexuality; the one on &#8220;homosexuality and american psychiatry&#8221; brings up books from the 1980s about how the APA was &#8220;politicized&#8221; into delisting homosexuality as a disorder.</p>
<p>If you type in &#8220;gay&#8221; as a search term, it suggests &#8220;gayporn&#8221;, &#8220;gaydvd&#8221; and similar variants which take you to their dvd/movies section and doesn&#8217;t show you any books (like &#8220;Gay New York&#8221; for example).</p>
<p>So are these suggested searches completely generated by how users search at the site?  If so, it seems odd that &#8220;gay&#8221; doesn&#8217;t bring up any &#8220;normal&#8221; phrase starting with that word and that &#8220;homosexuality&#8221; suggests right-wing BS for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Skippy</title>
		<link>http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2009/04/idosyncratic-code-amazonfail/comment-page-2/#comment-56200</link>
		<dc:creator>Skippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/?p=1395#comment-56200</guid>
		<description>It takes time to track this kind of weird crap down.  Does Amazon owe everyone an investigation and apology?  Yes.  Might it take a day or two to figure what the heck happened?  Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It takes time to track this kind of weird crap down.  Does Amazon owe everyone an investigation and apology?  Yes.  Might it take a day or two to figure what the heck happened?  Yes.</p>
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